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April 15, 2013
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Two Ravens by CountAile Two Ravens by CountAile
Sorry for the fans of original Teen Titans comics

While I perfectly understand that I didn't read enough of classic Teen Titans comics to judge the original character of Raven, I still have pretty much enough to say about her. And that is - her overall design is truly horrid. I mean, really - yeah, the teen Raven from that 2003 TV Series was lacking visual details, she wore the only thing that is more stupid than that cocktail dress (that freakin' leotard), but I guess, in the end, everything including wacky animesque-style and Tara Strong's voice made her design just so lovely - while the original had all those more-adult proportions, in an even more horrid semi-realistic graphic style (and, judging by her voice from "Injustice: Gods Among Us", a voice that would work somedat good for Storm from X-men, but simply assbad and stupid for Raven), making her, actually, far, far less tolerable in case of character design.
The same thing goes for the case of the whole classic Teen Titans for me. I've tried to read the old pre-TV-series Teen Titans comic and I just couldn't take it at all because of all that "absolutely angsty" atmosphere and "I'm-Trying-To-Draw-All-These-Half-Clothed-Females-And-Guys-In-Spandex-As-Realistic-As-Possible" style. That's right, I've tried, and I'm sticking to the cartoony ones.
I guess, that's what I've wanted to say here, or kinda XD

P.S. All the stuff that I get on the "classic Raven" points to that she's not even too antagonistic to Trygon, which is kind of total dissapoint. If I've got it wrong - I'd like to hear it 8)
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ForgottenReader Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2014
I personally prefer Comic!Raven over Toon!Raven, only because she's more sympathetic and complex. Her pacifism and compassion intrigues me the most. Here we have a character who is powerful and is perhaps considered as one of the strongest characters in the DC Universe (she's kind of like the DC version of Jean Grey and there was a crossover where even Jean said that she and Raven are practically sisters). I don't know how far you read the NTT series but I suggest you keep reading because it is honestly the best Teen Titans series ever.

Another reason why I prefer is because of her gentle and kind nature, she's adorable whenever she's being awkward.
CountAile Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, I've read NTT way past Wildebeest Society arc by now (and am reading the "Titans" comic, the one where the group gets reassembled after Cyborg returns from his universe trip), and I've got to say... She's not that bad in terms of a character. The cartoon one is less goofy and more gloomy than the original (through, very likeable), and yeah, the pacifism of the original Raven is an interesting aspect (a shame that everybody knows her as "that ugly-faced evil gurl with weird voice who's sometimes literally red-skinned" thanks to Injustice). I guess, what people need is a new Teen Titans cartoon where she'll get enough character development (no, TTG does not count as a part of Teen Titans franchise, heh XD ). Would be cool to see the continuation of her cartoon persona, as well as her comic self - just as long as it's not "just for lulz"
KaylaKedziora Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
um i like both but its your opinion 
disturbedfantasy Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2014… this is a good reason to like comic raven. Personally I love all the versions of the Titans and raven to some extent with the exception of TTGO And the NEW 52.
CountAile Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Did read the classical TT already and yeah, she rocks there

Don't know about New 52 TT, but yeah, TTGO is a huge letdown for all the fans of original show. It's like - oh, I don't know, the end of Wildebeest Society compared to the end of the Trigon's Invasion Arc/the end of Return of the Brother Blood (which brought back Raven to the team, by the way). The latter two were cheesy, but great, and the former had bad writing and several ruined characters "just because duh". I mean, really? (BTW, it was not even the lowest point - the stuff like "persistent Changeling's madness'o'corruption", "Richard is MAAAAAD" and "angsty mutant teens from the future" still managed to be even worse)
rjpugh Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014
I suspect Raven had to be simplified for the cartoon setting, and in my opinion they did a good job.  The Raven in the comics was a really messed up individual who didn't seem to know her mind about much of anything.  She had what some call a "cocktail personality," and didn't seem to be concerned with right versus wrong.  To say she was annoying would be an understatement.  I could go into more detail on that, but lets just say that if she was someone I knew in the real world I would go to great lengths to avoid her.

The cartoon Raven, on the other hand, seemed more integrated as a person.  She was a very conflicted individual, and she was very insecure about herself.  But the writers made it work, and her distant, brooding nature actually made sense, and she was likeable in her own strange way.  Where comic Raven wanted me to walk away in disgust, cartoon Raven made me feel sympathetic.  There were several episodes where I wanted to give the poor girl a hug!

I suspect that part of the problem is that a character like Raven is hard to maintain, from a writing standpoint.  The comic writers had to maintain this character indefinitely, so they never attempted to deal with her issues.  Doing so would have resolved them, which would cause the character to change, and that would mess up the delicate ensemble they were operating. 

The cartoon writers, however, knew that they were working with a time frame of four to seven seasons (depending on ratings and renewals contracts), so they could feel free to explore her issues and ultimately make changes.  During the final season of the show, cartoon Raven was becoming less angst ridden and more open about herself.  Had the show continued they might have developed her more, but time didn't permit that.

As for her outfit?  Meh.  Sure, it's a little strange, but it's no worse than most other comic heroines.  In fact it's fairly conservative.  I can honestly say I didn't give it much thought.  I always assumed that Starfire was the fanservice plate in the Titan set.

Regarding Trigon?  Comic Raven never seemed to have a clear view on how to deal with old four-eyes.  Cartoon Raven, by contract, always saw him as an enemy, and never minced words on the subject.  Good for her.

I'll stop here.  I'm not making sense. B-)
CountAile Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, after actually reading the comic, I can say this:
Regarding the character, the old comic one is somewhat of a social-awkward-yet-mysterious-goofball-with-demonic-powers. She is nearly always really pompous in her manner of speech ("Titans, my friends, I've came to you in this dark time to ask you for assistance once again! My water closet is broken"), she reads minds and emotions but does not understand them and she's really prone to corruption, which always causes her to shift from mystical to angsty. Through, it IS a contrast to her snapped-out condition when she is causing people to bleed from their eyes and scream in agony with just a wave of a hand.
Overall, the comic Raven was not yet established as a character, and writers were not sure what to do with her.

The cartoon one is, well, based on the old one, but this time character design was left to people who know how to do it. They changed her dress to leotard since it would be much easier to animate, and made her character more complex, believable and sympathetic. Her powers, through, became more action-oriented, and became a tad weaker than her comic ones (through, she's STILL the most powerful member of TT. The only things in comics that prevented her from dominating anything short of Trigon were her pacifism and empathy)

So - yeah, the cartoon one wins the contest on all accounts (except, maybe, for Power), it's a shame that DC did not pick it up for the mainstream TT comics, like they did with Mr. Freeze from Batman: TAS (they DID create the "Teen Titans Go!" comics based on the show - but neither Starfire, nor Raven, whose new looks and personalities became more popular than their old ones did get any upgrades in the main series)
rjpugh Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014
It's interesting that you mention Raven's power level, because I remember reading a statement from one of the cartoon's producers about that.  One idea they were considering (but never got around to doing due to cancellation) was the balance between Raven's human and demon halves.  

Long story short, Raven ultimately chooses to live by human standards, because one thing she always longed for was to *feel.*  But, her demon side was always getting in the way. In order to fully embrace and experience the positive human emotions, her demonic side would have to be shackled.  If she did that, she could never become as powerful as she could be.  But in return, she would gain the ability to feel joy, wonder, love, and all the other good things that us regular humans enjoy all the time.

It almost sounds like the two sides of the Force from Star Wars, which is interesting in itself.  Much of Star Wars draws on Hindi mythology, where balance, and the consequences of choice, are recurring themes.  Also, much of the original inspiration for Raven  came from Hindi sources (though as you say the creators didn't do very well with it).  The "dark side" may give you more bang for your buck, but it makes you prone to temptation and corruption, while isolating you from just about everything and everyone around you. In Raven's case, she would also start loosing her empathic ability. The corrupting influence of power and what not. 

She chose to turn her hooded back on that, and walk away.

Funny thing is, just before the comics rebooted into the New-52 timeline, Raven appeared to be doing something very like that, and one of the reasons was Garfield (Changeling/Beast Boy).  They had an on-off thing for several issues, but at the end it looked like they were actually going to try and make things work for the long haul.  And, Raven was going to try looking at the good side of her emotions, probably because Garfield would be there to keep her grounded.

Personally, I though it was nice of DC to end that particular plot thread on a happy note.  I mean in the second to last panel she and Changeling kissed and walked into the morning sun. That's almost a "happily ever after!"

I suspect the BBxRae fan base had a field day with that.

(Sorry this was so long; I had trouble getting to my point.)
PunkMetalhead Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2013
and i thought marvel's fanbase was divided :/
TheBlu3Giraffe Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2013  Student
I think that as her character and the original story that they gave her, she almost doesn't fit within the teen titan range, not because she isnt an interesting personality, I felt like her story couldve been more well written and a completely independent thing. 
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