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Two Ravens by CountAile Two Ravens by CountAile
Sorry for the fans of original Teen Titans comics

While I perfectly understand that I didn't read enough of classic Teen Titans comics to judge the original character of Raven, I still have pretty much enough to say about her. And that is - her overall design is truly horrid. I mean, really - yeah, the teen Raven from that 2003 TV Series was lacking visual details, she wore the only thing that is more stupid than that cocktail dress (that freakin' leotard), but I guess, in the end, everything including wacky animesque-style and Tara Strong's voice made her design just so lovely - while the original had all those more-adult proportions, in an even more horrid semi-realistic graphic style (and, judging by her voice from "Injustice: Gods Among Us", a voice that would work somedat good for Storm from X-men, but simply assbad and stupid for Raven), making her, actually, far, far less tolerable in case of character design.
The same thing goes for the case of the whole classic Teen Titans for me. I've tried to read the old pre-TV-series Teen Titans comic and I just couldn't take it at all because of all that "absolutely angsty" atmosphere and "I'm-Trying-To-Draw-All-These-Half-Clothed-Females-And-Guys-In-Spandex-As-Realistic-As-Possible" style. That's right, I've tried, and I'm sticking to the cartoony ones.
I guess, that's what I've wanted to say here, or kinda XD

P.S. All the stuff that I get on the "classic Raven" points to that she's not even too antagonistic to Trygon, which is kind of total dissapoint. If I've got it wrong - I'd like to hear it 8)
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:iconrjpugh:
rjpugh Feb 12, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I suspect Raven had to be simplified for the cartoon setting, and in my opinion they did a good job.  The Raven in the comics was a really messed up individual who didn't seem to know her mind about much of anything.  She had what some call a "cocktail personality," and didn't seem to be concerned with right versus wrong.  To say she was annoying would be an understatement.  I could go into more detail on that, but lets just say that if she was someone I knew in the real world I would go to great lengths to avoid her.

The cartoon Raven, on the other hand, seemed more integrated as a person.  She was a very conflicted individual, and she was very insecure about herself.  But the writers made it work, and her distant, brooding nature actually made sense, and she was likeable in her own strange way.  Where comic Raven wanted me to walk away in disgust, cartoon Raven made me feel sympathetic.  There were several episodes where I wanted to give the poor girl a hug!

I suspect that part of the problem is that a character like Raven is hard to maintain, from a writing standpoint.  The comic writers had to maintain this character indefinitely, so they never attempted to deal with her issues.  Doing so would have resolved them, which would cause the character to change, and that would mess up the delicate ensemble they were operating. 

The cartoon writers, however, knew that they were working with a time frame of four to seven seasons (depending on ratings and renewals contracts), so they could feel free to explore her issues and ultimately make changes.  During the final season of the show, cartoon Raven was becoming less angst ridden and more open about herself.  Had the show continued they might have developed her more, but time didn't permit that.

As for her outfit?  Meh.  Sure, it's a little strange, but it's no worse than most other comic heroines.  In fact it's fairly conservative.  I can honestly say I didn't give it much thought.  I always assumed that Starfire was the fanservice plate in the Titan set.

Regarding Trigon?  Comic Raven never seemed to have a clear view on how to deal with old four-eyes.  Cartoon Raven, by contract, always saw him as an enemy, and never minced words on the subject.  Good for her.

I'll stop here.  I'm not making sense. B-)
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:iconcountaile:
CountAile Feb 12, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, after actually reading the comic, I can say this:
Regarding the character, the old comic one is somewhat of a social-awkward-yet-mysterious-goofball-with-demonic-powers. She is nearly always really pompous in her manner of speech ("Titans, my friends, I've came to you in this dark time to ask you for assistance once again! My water closet is broken"), she reads minds and emotions but does not understand them and she's really prone to corruption, which always causes her to shift from mystical to angsty. Through, it IS a contrast to her snapped-out condition when she is causing people to bleed from their eyes and scream in agony with just a wave of a hand.
Overall, the comic Raven was not yet established as a character, and writers were not sure what to do with her.

The cartoon one is, well, based on the old one, but this time character design was left to people who know how to do it. They changed her dress to leotard since it would be much easier to animate, and made her character more complex, believable and sympathetic. Her powers, through, became more action-oriented, and became a tad weaker than her comic ones (through, she's STILL the most powerful member of TT. The only things in comics that prevented her from dominating anything short of Trigon were her pacifism and empathy)

So - yeah, the cartoon one wins the contest on all accounts (except, maybe, for Power), it's a shame that DC did not pick it up for the mainstream TT comics, like they did with Mr. Freeze from Batman: TAS (they DID create the "Teen Titans Go!" comics based on the show - but neither Starfire, nor Raven, whose new looks and personalities became more popular than their old ones did get any upgrades in the main series)
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:iconrjpugh:
rjpugh Feb 12, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
It's interesting that you mention Raven's power level, because I remember reading a statement from one of the cartoon's producers about that.  One idea they were considering (but never got around to doing due to cancellation) was the balance between Raven's human and demon halves.  

Long story short, Raven ultimately chooses to live by human standards, because one thing she always longed for was to *feel.*  But, her demon side was always getting in the way. In order to fully embrace and experience the positive human emotions, her demonic side would have to be shackled.  If she did that, she could never become as powerful as she could be.  But in return, she would gain the ability to feel joy, wonder, love, and all the other good things that us regular humans enjoy all the time.

It almost sounds like the two sides of the Force from Star Wars, which is interesting in itself.  Much of Star Wars draws on Hindi mythology, where balance, and the consequences of choice, are recurring themes.  Also, much of the original inspiration for Raven  came from Hindi sources (though as you say the creators didn't do very well with it).  The "dark side" may give you more bang for your buck, but it makes you prone to temptation and corruption, while isolating you from just about everything and everyone around you. In Raven's case, she would also start loosing her empathic ability. The corrupting influence of power and what not. 

She chose to turn her hooded back on that, and walk away.

Funny thing is, just before the comics rebooted into the New-52 timeline, Raven appeared to be doing something very like that, and one of the reasons was Garfield (Changeling/Beast Boy).  They had an on-off thing for several issues, but at the end it looked like they were actually going to try and make things work for the long haul.  And, Raven was going to try looking at the good side of her emotions, probably because Garfield would be there to keep her grounded.

Personally, I though it was nice of DC to end that particular plot thread on a happy note.  I mean in the second to last panel she and Changeling kissed and walked into the morning sun. That's almost a "happily ever after!"

I suspect the BBxRae fan base had a field day with that.


(Sorry this was so long; I had trouble getting to my point.)
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:iconpunkmetalhead:
and i thought marvel's fanbase was divided :/
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:icontheblu3giraffe:
I think that as her character and the original story that they gave her, she almost doesn't fit within the teen titan range, not because she isnt an interesting personality, I felt like her story couldve been more well written and a completely independent thing. 
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:iconravenshiddensoul:
Are you sure you'd like to hear it if you've got it wrong"? Because, well, your picture here caught the attention of someone who HAS read plenty of the original comics - you know, enough to see the really deep and complex character developement happening, and there's a lot I could say here. But I'm not entirely sure whether you were being sarcastic or not. 8F
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:iconcountaile:
CountAile Apr 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, my main complain is about the character design (not just how she looks) - I found the classic one hard to digest for many reasons and, well, this AND the impression of the classic TT books kind of nailed it for me - but maybe I just overlooked something good because of that, who knows. At least I know exactly that the character design, style and, well, everything that is not in scenario is a disaster - though, if the content is really worthwhile, it may still be of an interest after all 8]
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:iconravenshiddensoul:
I should add that I WAS a TT-cartoon fan originally, spot-on target audience and everything - I went to the comics afterward (as an elven year old, no less!) and managed to love her comic counterpart every bit as much...?
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:iconhexreverie:
Yeah, this is going into my favorites.

After I got hooked on the TT cartoon way back when, I went and researched the comics the show was based on. Perhaps it was just the 60s mindset she was created in, but I found her design and back story in the comics wasn't as interesting. But maybe that's just my bias against comic book stories in general showing.

The thing that amazed me about the cartoon Raven was she was a fictional goth that didn't end up annoying me. She wasn't depicted as a poser and never turned into one. She was the goddamn anti-Christ and knew her premature death would bring existence to an end. She never got a proper childhood and she was subjected to what would be considered emotional abuse here on earth so her powers wouldn't kill the people around her. Who wouldn't be dark and bitter in her position?

Also, does anyone else think NRS is terrible at making female faces that aren't unique like Mileena's? Seriously, since when did Raven have a Jay Leno-esque chin?
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:iconscinsainty:
She was created as a late-night break as many rules as possible character. Her costume (The dress, high heel boots ect as when she's older) was designed purposively as something impossible to actual fight in. I'm not sure how hard it would be if someone actually suited up in reality but then again male author's wouldn't know. The whole demon thing was them wanting a super badly and to have her be able to go rouge but flip back and forth as a good guy and bad guy as back-up plot. Her telekinesis, empathy and healing was just to sorta round on the original titans rather than creating a decent fighter. Her tv personality was to make sure that little kids would understand her rather than be confused by an apathetic person(which imho would have been better and I was a target audience when the show was aired!) Same thing with Deathstroke having to be go by his first name. Trigon was given shoes wayy to big to fill based on how comic storylines go. He should have been able to crush the titans but he gets wasted instead. As much I love the Raven character, she does fall victim to carwreck that is DC's authors.
Sorry to rant but I figured I might as well as add on.
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